The following contains spoilers for 308

On The Walking Dead: Dead City, after Negan (Jeffrey Dean Morgan) shot his two walker friends in a recent episode, Dillard (Jimmi Simpson) completely broke, slicing his own face open and blaming Negan. He only continued to spiral further as he killed Renata (Aimee Garcia) in last week’s episode. In the season finale, which airs tonight on AMC and AMC+, Dillard takes over the community and launches a deadly manhunt for his former friend.

Simpson recently spoke with SciFi Vision about Dillard’s surprising turn in Dead City, his relationship with the walkers, and the emotional fallout of Negan’s actions. Simpson explained that he did not play Dillard’s kindness as a mask, but as a real need for connection that had been broken by humanity. He also discussed Dillard’s final fight with Negan, becoming a walker, working with the actors playing Cockenspiel and Titicaca, and filming the light-hearted karaoke scene earlier in the season with Aimee Garcia.

The Walking Dead: Dead City is available to stream on AMC+.

Read the full transcript below.

SCIFI VISION:   Your character did not go the way I thought it was going to go. I was very surprised by the end there.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Did you enjoy the ride?

SCIFI VISION:   Yes, I did, but I just, I was very surprised. It a id not go the way I thought it was. So, what I want to first talk about, though, is obviously I think you're supposed to take it that Negan killing Dillard’s walker friend made him snap the rest of the way, but I almost kind of wondered if, he talked about, you know, if you play a part long enough, it's still part of you. And I almost wondered if some of it was more of a mask, the nice guy part, and he more chose to let it out, because he seemed so angry as he was slashing his face, not just upset. So yeah, talk about sort of how you were thinking of it as you were playing it.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Yeah, no, I wasn't thinking, I wasn't playing it as a mask. It was, you know, yeah, you can see him as wild, crazy, fucking grotesque, but underneath all of that, there's this fairly recognizable need that he just wants connection. And in the pre-times, he wasn't able to find it within the living. And if anything, it was only shown through his devastating work as a police officer, that people are duplicitous, vile, liars, and destroyers. And so for Dillard, you know, all of this happening has been a respite for him from what humanity was. And he found a lot of peace, and he found that connection that he was looking for in the simple nature of a walker, that they are, you know, exactly what they're after, you know, what they are going to do. And so that became such a sense of peace for him. That was, you know, it's like anyone who would keep a tiger or anyone who's just more drawn to the animal world than to the human world, despite their fangs and their claws and their intent to kill, there's a clarity to these creatures. And he was at peace. He was truly at peace. So, when Negan came in, on his own, Negan chose to enter Dillard's bar and then presented this idea, and he opened up to it and the connection they had right away really shifted Dillard's perspective in a deep way that, okay, humanity's not all that bad. And then, oh, well, sometimes humanity's what they say they're going to be, you know, and that sometimes they're fun. And that really opened up this box. And whether you think, like a recluse is damaged or not, the thing is they find their peace in their little space. And Dillard was open to this and allowed Negan and this world to kind of say, no, no, no, we're all working together. Look at this. That's what he observed. There's a community here that's all about creating more good. And that's all Dillard has ever wanted. And so once that friendship became solidified in Dillard's heart and mind, he was a changed man. And so just to answer your question specifically, it's not the accidental loss of Cockenspiel (Josh Hernandez). It's not the intentional loss of his family in TC (Khristina Ellery). Those things are devastating, but they happened. They happened, because the man who had promised friendship was thoughtless with Dillard's heart, was careless. And so that shattered. And so it's more of like, “You promised me one thing, you lied, and you took away the thing I had before you came. I have nothing left. You've proven to me that humanity is despicable, and so I'm just going to show you what you showed me.” So, to me, everything was like emotionally intact for Dillard. I'm not saying a psychologist would say that's the way you should handle that, but all of it was deeply emotionally intact for Dillard. Dillard was a whole person who was then pushed beyond what he was capable of coming to terms with.

SCIFI VISION:   Okay. Fair enough. Now, the one thing we got to make sure we have time to talk about is the final fight scene with Negan. Talk about the physicality of it, and also of course, the death that resulted. Talk about playing that and what that was like.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   What do you want to know about it?

SCIFI VISION:   Just the filming of it. Like, did you enjoy the physical part of it? And also becoming a walker too. That's got to be a lot of fun. The one thing, probably most people, if they're not going to stick around on the show, want to get to do, I'm assuming, [is become a walker].

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Yeah, no, it's, as far as what I can see, it's the first time that a character becoming a walker was a relief. It was actually lovely, because I'd spent all this time playing someone fascinated by these creatures. And then he finally got to inhabit one, you know, method acting with a very long runway. And then, you know, the, the last thing, that fight scene, it was was wonderful. I mean, it was, it needed to go that direction. He had to lose an arm [laughs], you know, which is always upsetting, but of course it's not my arm, but, you know, I've reached the point in my career where someone says, “and then you lose an arm.” I'm like, “If it makes sense, let's do it all the way.” So, it was a bit tragic, because Jeffrey and I had gotten so close, and we're really enjoying doing scene work together, but there's so much beauty in tragedy. And so like, we were both quite emotional shooting that scene, between takes, because it was just, it was the end of an era. And I thought that they handled it beautifully. I thought the writers did a gorgeous job. And I haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure it cuts together.

SCIFI VISION:   Yeah, it looks really good. It is interesting though; I do think it's the first person that would rather turn into a Walker probably then die.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Oh, sure. A thousand percent.

SCIFI VISION:   But talk about working with the special effects and also working with walkers, because you were, you know, around a lot of them, obviously, for a lot of it, but most people don't talk to them. I think you're the only one who's ever hung out with them like that.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Yeah. Well, Josh who played Cockenspiel and Khristina Ellery who played a TC (Titicaca), they are profoundly gifted actors. And so, Dead City just won the lottery when they cast these two. They came as committed as, you know, a British theater student who'd been studying Shakespeare their whole life, who finally gets to play Hamlet or something. They knew how essential it was to make these characters realistic, and they gave a thousand percent every single day. And so, I became close with both of them, because it was just kind of stunning to watch them work. It was stunning to watch them go through hours and hours and hours of makeup, look fricking disgusting, and then commit a thousand percent emotionally. So, that was one of the more joyful parts, being able to work with those two actors, because yeah, they needed to be as good as they were in order for Dillard to have the relationship he has with them. Yeah, so I spent a lot of time with them. And the special effects in general, just everybody was so committed. Every single artist was so happy that they got to make Titicaca look the way she looks, to apply the gash. You know, uh, special effects guys and women are, that's what they've always wanted to do. So, there's this certain euphoria that each one that I've ever worked with has about like, “Let's do it.” You know, there can be with repetition, there can be the slog like feeling in any profession, especially this one or in any kind of facet of showbiz, but SFX men and women are always delighted to be at work. Truly.

SCIFI VISION:   I know we're almost out of time, but quickly, before we go, thinking back, talk about the karaoke scene with Aimee Garcia, because I thought that was a lot of fun too.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Yeah, it was just, they sent me that song, and I was stoked. And I don't know. I think Aimee and I both were like, “I love to work from impulse and from the moment.” And so, we could have like worked out how that's going to sound a whole bunch, but I don't, it wasn't that. It wasn't two people who have done that before with each other. It was two people who just tried this thing. And so we didn't sing it together until we were filming. So, yeah, it was an utter joy to spend that time. It was brief, you know, there wasn't like a lot of time to get that. We did in a couple of takes, and it was such a pleasure, and she was up for it, and I was up for it. And it seemed like the people watching, you know, we had a nice big audience, and they were all into it. So, it felt like a really organic moment of entertainment for everybody.

SCIFI VISION:   Yeah. A little bit of nice, a nice moment in the darkness, I guess.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Exactly.

SCIFI VISION:   All right. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. I think I'm talking to you [soon] for Dark Matter….But I enjoyed both roles. This was definitely a lot different, but I enjoyed it.

JIMMI SIMPSON:   Very different. Ryan and Dillard are very, very different fellows, but they both feel what they mean, you know?